Modification Prop Configuration

Discussion in 'Garry's Mod: Flood' started by Viral, Apr 22, 2018.

  1. Viral

    Viral Devinity's Finest Forger Staff Member Server Moderator Platinum VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    215
    Server:
    Flood
    Recently I’ve been talking with @Rick and @Donkie and they’ve embarked me on a quest to balance the flood servers. The real goal is to be able to update the prop database weekly or perhaps bi-weekly. I’ve been doing a lot of my own research on this to find out what props do in fact need balancing, but, of course, as a community, I’d really like to hear everyone’s opinions so check below for some ideas on what I’m looking for.

    Boat Designs that need to be nerfed

    You know that there are really uncreative boats that seemingly win/gain money every round? Well even if you like to think outside the box, a lot of unbalanced props lead to us giving in and building these same boats. This, in turn, leads to a lack of prop diversity throughout the server and eventually would make the game mode become repetitive for some people. Post any overpowered boat designs or props, in general, that you think have been taking away from the gameplay.

    Prop Limits that render the prop useless

    If you’ve come across any prop limits that you feel should be changed let me know. Keep in mind that most prop limits are there for a reason and no, we cannot make infinite snowman heads. However, I won’t disagree that there are some set limits out there that could use tweaking to improve gameplay. If you find others, suggest a solution here or, if you can’t think of one, just voice your opinion in general.

    Buoyancies that are out of whack (#DontTweakTheLeek)

    Personally, I think this here is the biggest problem out of all these when considering, it probably affects the core gameplay of the mode the most. In general: Good = Support Player, Average = Needs help supporting, Bad = Won’t support players and bring small props under, & Extremely Bad = Can sink smaller ships/be used as anchors. I’ll be going through buoyancy balance very thoroughly but just in case I miss something comment whatever you feel should float better/or sink faster.

    Props that you just can’t afford (Here we go again)

    Prop prices, welfare, and flood economy, in general, are things that have been debated here for a long time. In my own opinion, some of the flood props have unfair prices that make it extremely difficult for new players to make a profit. Know veteran players tend to dismiss this complaint (“get gud”) but new players will become the new devinity generation. As a Garry’s mod server, I don’t think anyone should really be struggling to build boats — obviously this doesn’t include those who waste all their money on tokens but still, it shouldn’t be difficult to make money in the game, since as of right now money is the main functional unit of the server.

    Most of those who stay at devinity know flood is one of the best creativity-enabling game modes out there, but imbalanced props lead to many players being unable to see that, which isn’t fair to them because everyone deserves a community like Devinity.
     
    #1
  2. Noriaki Cocaine

    Noriaki Cocaine Devine Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    111
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    exotranc#3653
    I don't think that there's genuinely an imbalance in these categories. For example, when it comes to "overpowered" boat designs, it wouldn't make any sense to nerf them. Increasing the price/decreasing the limit/lowering the health of them would upset the general Flood concept of using the best props to win, and there's no reason to nerf them apart from their overused status, which is really a blessing and a curse at the same time.

    Players enjoy using the boats that are most effective regardless of how repetitive it may seem because it's what makes them win, and anyone that doesn't build boats very well, is lazy, or just wants to make money from rounds would find themselves not wanting to play if their conventional staple boat was made worse. Saying good riddance to these people isn't a good idea either since they are a big part of our playerbase. Essentially, among all the unique prop combinations, there always needs to be a simple, reliable option like bookshelves or vending machines that people can always use, and trying to nerf them just so they would use them less is not the best way to deal with it.

    Needless to say, here are the five props that I think are the most powerful (in descending order) but shouldn't be tampered with:
    1. Wide bookshelf
    2. Blue boat
    3. Wardrobe
    4. Vending machine cover
    5. Ball pit

    Furthermore, most props that are useless are not useless because the limit on them is illogical but because they are incredibly niche. Increasing the limit of props that are already pointless like the deer head or the tile bunker would have absolutely no effect on the usefulness of them. I suppose the deeper issue present is that most of the miscellaneous props exist solely to make it seem like you have lots of options, albeit only half of them actually have a reason to be used.

    Also, for the case of buoyancy, I don't know any distinct problems but in my opinion the heavy props should be made slightly heavier. As it stands, the one ton, lockers, car, and dumpster can be held up too easily.

    The issue of props being too expensive to afford or being unfairly priced is hardly an issue at all. The way that I see it, you are absolutely guaranteed to have a net gain in money every round if you are even slightly frugal with your prop usage. Even though no one likes anyone that builds a one prop boat and spams their highest damage weapons on people, it's practically necessary to do if you want to make a lot of money. I can definitely attest to it. Of course, this doesn't account for new players that don't know what to do, but balancing the gamemode isn't something that will help with that.

    A crucial problem when we consider Flood balance is that we assume a perfect situation where every player is thinking the same way and scenarios play out just as we expect them to. Sometimes we may perceive certain props as good or bad just because the person that's using them has made it seem so, or maybe that a bunch of individual players decided to aim all at one player because they have the flashiest playermodel and accessories, getting them to complain about whatever boats the individual players were using. In conclusion, it's important to consider these kinds of situations when "balancing" Flood (I say this because I feel it's balanced already) because nothing is perfectly consistent among players.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
    #2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Rick

    Rick female nipple Gold VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2014
    Messages:
    1,771
    Likes Received:
    613
    I don't like it being called balancing, but it gets stale with props not being edited.

    I have a few things changes that I'll be aiming to do, but bear in mind I'm not too involved in flood. I've already made some changes and I'll be doing more.

    • Re-jig some of the props every once in a while to keep it interesting
    • Make metal props more viable by changing pricing and health
    I don't know how the buoyancy works so I don't want to get involved with that.
     
    #3
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Sgt. Orange

    Sgt. Orange Weaponsmith

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    31
    We should focus on making armour pieces more viable, because that is one of the creativity features I find lacking, good players almost never armour up their boats and for good reason, armour pieces are way too expensive and act like damage fodders.

    Edit: Also need to mention, they make the boats super unstable, its like paying extra to get a worse boat.
     
    #4
    • Useful Useful x 1
  5. Noriaki Cocaine

    Noriaki Cocaine Devine Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    111
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    exotranc#3653
    The particular issue with armor is that it gets unwelded very frequently or one piece gets destroyed and that side of the boat being exposed is all that's needed to destroy the rest of the boat. Also, all arced weapons can ignore most armor too, making them ineffective against rocket launchers and the like.
     
    #5
  6. Sgt. Orange

    Sgt. Orange Weaponsmith

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    31
    Bazooka projectiles now have a smaller arc thanks to the recent changes I made to that, should it be reduced further? It can be done by simply changing a single variable.

    As for the unweld chance, its also pretty low right now (20%) but I can imagine a scenario where an entire team is unloading bazookas onto a single boat and that is likely to unweld it into pieces. You can see where I am going with this, nerfing this chance would be punishing for solo players but fair for teams.

    I think the best way to go right now is to make the smaller less used armour pieces stronger or cheaper, this will boost the rewards or reduce the risk respectively of using such props to armour your boat. Bigger armour pieces like the blast doors shouldn't receive this buff.
     
    #6
  7. Viral

    Viral Devinity's Finest Forger Staff Member Server Moderator Platinum VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    215
    Server:
    Flood
    I'll look into some changes for the armoured pieces to make them more viable to people needing them for protection.
     
    #7