Modification Flood Weapons Suggestions & Feedback

Discussion in 'Garry's Mod: Flood' started by counter, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. counter

    counter Godly Member Platinum VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    834
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    co#2858
    Prior 3/23/2019 changes
    Decreased RPG damage from 20 to 15
    Changed RPG and Grenade's particle effect to reduce some lag
    Added SMG weapon hints!
    I forgot the rest

    3/23/2019
    Replaced AK47 with the AK-12
    Added handicap (decreased movement speed) for the Flamethrower
    Allowed sprint attacking on all SMGs
    Increased DDeagle spreadrecovery from 4.5 to 5.25
    Increased toy hammer melee range (should be the same as the crowbar)
    Increased L85A2 RPM from 680 to 700

    Made SPAS-12 Shotgun more effective again for its price:

    • Increased secondary RPM from 55 to 60
    • Increased damage from 4 to 6
    • Decreased clipsize from 8 to 6
    • Decreased shelltime from 0.5 to 0.4 (faster reload)

    Increased M4 Shotgun shelltime from 0.35 to 0.55
    Increased TMP RPM from 2000 to 3000
    Decreased TMP defaultclip from 240 to 210
    Increased UMP45 RPM from 500 to 600


    Future considerations
    Galil replacement
    1-2 weapons

    Our Audit Logs page is now available to the public, changes will still be posted here however
     
    #21
  2. counter

    counter Godly Member Platinum VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    834
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    co#2858
    Some changes from GitHub

    3/28/2019
    Added missing ak12 content
    Added new p90, dragons breath [fire] shotgun (wip) and m500 weapons
    Added missing flamethrower sounds
    Added viewmodel blowback to the 357 (should be easier to aim with)
    Replaced rpg particle (to reduce filesize)
    Removed ar3
    Removed unused nmod effects and weapons content

    The Trench Shotgun's ignition time is currently set to 5 seconds, if it's too short, please let me know

    Will add devinity weapon icons soon
     
    #22
  3. Lime

    Lime Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    7
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    Lime#1980
    A glaring issue that hinders balance in gameplay and overall enjoyment is the flamethrower, specifically its damage. The flamethrower is an incredibly destructive go-to weapon, taking only a few seconds to tear average/larger-sized boats in half. While the flamethrower has been nerfed over time with the most recent change being a movement handicap with the weapon out, it is easily countered by switching to a light weapon and back while swimming to a boat (or just simply spawning a boat next to another player's boat). Everything from RPM to range and so forth is fine, but the incentive to spawn an inexpensive boat next to a large (or small) boat for a quick cash grab is too great when the only requirement is a cheap prop and a neighbor to flamethrower. Of course players could jump into the water and swing their crowbars to knockback the player using a flamethrower, but I feel that shouldn't be necessary just to defend yourself against unrealistically insurmountable damage. There is almost no reason to not use the flamethrower if a player is in range of another boat when nothing else can match its power except for another flamethrower user, or two or more players. It also doesn't take much to force a player to move their boat, spawn a boat of equivalent size/cost, or even leave the server if they are being flamethrowered for rounds.

    As anticlimactic as this sounds, I think all it really needs is a massive nerf to damage. Despite the objective of destroying other players' boats as fast as possible, it cuts games way too short with little effort to handle the flamethrower and ruining the general flood gameplay experience.
     
    #23
    • Like Like x 2
  4. mis

    mis Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    8
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    MiS#4687
    The AK-12 feels a lot more consistent than the old AK-47, good damage at close-range, okay at mid-range, falls off with recoil at anything far away.

    Basically, it feels a lot more balanced than it's old counterpart, which acted more like a shotgun-esque assault rifle that was only really effective at close range. The same goes for the L85A2, the old AUG's recoil was pretty horrid, but the new gun is much more accurate and easier to control at burst or full auto.

    The Galil as it is right now... is basically a laser gun. Little to no recoil, does consistent damage at any range, has a massive ammo pool; there's almost no reason to not buy this weapon early on considering how reliable in DPS it is. I wouldn't say it's exactly OP since there's a lot of other guns that do way more burst DPS, but it's the most consistent in terms of landing all your shots (most of the time) and getting decent damage and money for the round.
     
    #24
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. Lc50

    Lc50 Definitely a sunflower Contributor Bronze VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    22
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    Lc50#2500
    We've been thinking that this weapon had been overpowered in every way too so the handicap on movement was there for a reason. In theory it should be less viable on light boats like 2 soda machine doors or maybe buoys but on practice it didn't bring us any results. The nerf probably has to be more global for that weapon. Doing a bit of math I've decided to leave it on 1000 RPM instead of old 1200. Theoretically it shouldn't do as much damage per second and melt away props within an instant. We'll be considering altering the stats for it further if we will be able to find a decent replacement for Minimi para or change the stats to make it more usable and fulfill the purpose of being a close-quarter weapon.

    Anyway leave your thoughts on that minor change. I hope the nerf made this gun more balanced.

    EDIT: I forgot to add this. If it still feels like a major issue please let us know, we will try to decrease the damage output for it further more.
     
    #25
    • Like Like x 2
  6. counter

    counter Godly Member Platinum VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    834
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    co#2858
    After small consideration we have also decided to decrease the base damage of the flamethrower to 3 (from 3.5) since the fire damage can easily supplement that. Thank you for the feedback

    3/29/2019
    Trench Gun changes:
    • Increased damage from 1 to 1.5
    • Increased fire duration from 5 to 8 seconds
    • Fixed broken bullet tracers
    • Fixed players being able to catch on fire
    Replaced the Lightning Rail with the Scout due to known (and unpatchable) exploit. This new iteration includes:
    • Decreased damage from 10 to 9
    • Sensitivity and scope FOV is slightly smaller than the AWP
    • Clipsize: 10
    Fixed some annoying console errors
    Temporarily disabled SMG Hints
    Made SSG Shotgun 1 shot again with 32 bullets instead of requiring 2 shots (with 16 each)
    Increased Molotov count from 6 to 8
    Increased Water Balloon count from 4 to 6
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
    #26
    • Like Like x 1
  7. mis

    mis Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    8
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    MiS#4687
    Comparing it to the Para LMG, one solution could be to make it (the flamethrower) a shotgun-esque close range weapon that only really works when you're up close or next to another boat - nerfing range would make it a lot more situational rather than a go-to weapon when another boat goes mid-range near you. A lot of people I've seen, tend to just jump off their boat, flame another one and jump back on their own as soon as they get in range. You could also potentially increase the reload speed of the flamethrower to lower it's burst DPS from one clip to the next - this would make it so that you can't just melt boats instantly as soon as they get in range.

    As for the Para, if the idea is to make it a strong DPS weapon at mid-to-close range while giving it more viability than the flamethrower, I'd suggesting maybe reducing the recoil a bit so that it's more consistent and mid range, but still enough recoil that it'd lose consistent DPS at longer ranges.
     
    #27
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Lime

    Lime Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    7
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    Lime#1980
    I have a few suggestions and comments.

    1. The Flamethrower changes (1200 -> 1000 RPM and 3.5 -> 3 damage) are good. It doesn't demolish boats as fast anymore so taking alternative weapons such as using the para, grenades, TNTs, and assault rifles is often necessary.

    2. The Trench Shotgun's own ability to light props on fire across the map is a bit strong because each pellet can light a prop on fire for up to 8 seconds with 30 shells in total being expended, capable of dealing more damage than someone trying to use an assault rifle or a sniper. Because it can hit multiple props from afar, the number of pellets wouldn't be an issue nor the fire duration but rather increasing the spray/decreasing the accuracy of the shotgun would be better.

    3. This request is a little different. I think the RPG should lose its ability to light props on fire and instead, increase damage by 10 or 20 when taking into account penetration (if there is any penetration) to compensate for lack of fire damage. While the reason is small, it seems to make more sense as a high-impact shrapnel explosive weapon.
     
    #28
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. Lc50

    Lc50 Definitely a sunflower Contributor Bronze VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    22
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    Lc50#2500
    On the dragon's breath shotgun: the idea behind was it would be short-medium range gun that could set on fire props. The reason behind high accuracy is only to not make it RPG-like in terms of fire damage. So you had to aim for the props you wanted to ignite. We will try to fix that by changing the range on which it could set props on fire.

    3. Meh, it doesn't really have penetration ablities nor it would be any good in the future. Pure ak12 gunplay isnt going to be any fun. Even if we will remove the ignition we would raise the unweld chance for it so it doesn't become mp7x3
     
    #29
    • Like Like x 3
  10. counter

    counter Godly Member Platinum VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    834
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    co#2858
    People have been originally complaining about the flamethrower having too low of a range, or had been protesting such a change but I think it would be much more of a feasible alternative now to combat that.

    Lightclaw has been wanting me to look into some possible replacements that could better fit for the stats that we envisage. For me personally, I thought the recoil was manageable to a certain extent but yeah I think that would be a good idea.

    That could possibly be a good idea. Also in regards to it, Donkie, Rick, Bayrock and I have been discussing for a bit on possibly implementing a reiteration of the unwelding feature of the explosive. Ideas have been floating around that it would be a good idea for the props to unweld only under the condition that the prop has a lower than the set percentage of health left (presumably half to a quarter). This way it might encourage people to keep the explosives instead of immediately unloading it all and that it would potentially lessen the opportunity for newer players to be bullied by those explosives.
     
    #30
    • Like Like x 1
  11. counter

    counter Godly Member Platinum VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    834
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    co#2858
    3/30/2019
    Increased Trench Gun spread from 0.03 to 0.08
    Decreased Scout damage from 9 to 8
    Decreased AWP RPM from 52 to 42
    Increased AWP damage from 12 to 14
    Slightly decreased Minimi Para kickup/down/horizontal recoil from 0.6 to 0.4
    Slightly increased Minimi Para spread from 0.1 to 0.12
    Decreased flamethrower range from 700 to 600 (subject to change)

    Thank you @Lime, @mis

    --------

    Posted Flood 2.2.8 changelogs alongside these changes
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
    #31
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. counter

    counter Godly Member Platinum VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    834
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    co#2858
    Added the Ray Gun
    Does splash damage, no spread (since it's entity-based)

    Price tag: $30,000
    Damage - 9 => 3
    Ammo - 100 => 60
     
    #32
  13. mis

    mis Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    8
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    MiS#4687
    On the current state of the Trench Gun: I think it's still a very overpowered weapon right now because the way it's being used by post people is less like a conventional shotgun and more like a "gun that can light props on fire at any range". The reason it's so profitable and easy to use is the fact that it can just ignite props - the other flame weapons (sans the RPG, but that's also overpowered in my opinion for the same reasons) rely on a certain degree of either skill (in the case of throwing a molotov) or distance (the flamethrower) to use: they're circumstantial weapons that in the right conditions, are very strong due to how much damage igniting props does to a boat. The Trench Gun is hit scan, which means that it basically instantly lights props on fire as soon as you have anyone in your sights and click, and keep doing so as long as you have the ammo for it.

    I like the idea of this, although it still sets props on fire at any range. Personally, I don't think nerfing the shotgun itself should be the issue - just the ignition rate/chance, because it should still function like a normal shotgun that has the possibility of setting props on fire at optimal ranges.

    I also think that fire damage in general is pretty crippling, but the amount of times people ignite boats is just way too common. Flamethrowers I believe are meant to be used when another boat gets too close, but most of the time people just build 1-2 prop boats next to a big boat and melting them as soon as the round starts, or if their boat dies, they just swim halfway across the map and do just as much damage, if not more, than when they were on their boat. This might be an unpopular suggestion, but maybe flamethrowers could just not work while swimming in water, maybe?

    RPGs are also strong because of the above reasons for igniting props, but also because of the way that it's the HL2 RPG that's controllable with in-flight correctable laser accuracy (you basically never miss your shots, and can hit boats that even have armor, from above). I'd suggest a more general RPG weapon & model, that requires aiming and maybe even predicting mid-flight dropoff at ranges like a normal RPG, since all other explosives (TNT, grenades, molotovs) require the same level of skill and arc prediction.

    Finally, is there any reason to use pistols right now, apart from the Golden Gun? It feels like most other close-range weapons serve better uses (shotguns, smgs, flamethrower) and you'd just lose damage if you chose pistols for any reason, really.
     
    #33
    • Like Like x 1
  14. counter

    counter Godly Member Platinum VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    834
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    co#2858
    I could try to make the gun ignite based on distance, I don't think that would be difficult for me to do since it'll require 1-2 checks around the fire damage code

    We've recently replaced the bazooka that was purely based on drop-off in favor of the RPG. I kinda liked it solely because it was reminiscent of the old Flood days from 2013-14 which I now realize isn't really good of a reason to add it but I honestly don't mind changing it back or maybe if @Lime is interested in creating a weapon model for it (which would be really awesome, no pressure though).

    I think pistols are more geared towards newer players but I have been and would like to encourage the use of pistols. If you have any ideas or maybe even weapon suggestions/replacements that would possibly encourage people to utilize them I would be more than willing to look over them

    An idea that I have in mind is that maybe we could increase the accuracy of the pistols
     
    #34
  15. mis

    mis Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    8
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    MiS#4687
    Assuming the weight system is coming soon in an update, I think pistols will have a much more valued role as weapons that don't take up much weight, so they can be added to someone's inventory easily as a backup weapon. For people to use them more often, I think there could be some replacements/additions that lets pistols fill a psuedo-role for other weapon classes. Examples:

    Contender:
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=426465571 (CW)
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=872012256 (M9K)

    Scoped single-shot, break-action pistol. It could potentially replace the S&W M500 as a pseudo-sniper without the (assumingly) hefty weight penalty snipers would have. It could have the same damage as the M500, but clip size would be 1 and have lower ammo. The trade would be higher accuracy and maybe less recoil as a result, possibly? Or, damage could be nerfed and it could have a chance for penetrating props?

    G18 (Glock 18):
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=205318127 (M9K)
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=358126600 (CW)

    Full auto pistol. It could be a new addition, or replace the FiveseveN and have the starter pistol buffed in exchange. Could fill the role as a psuedo-SMG at close range, the niche for it being the only auto pistol that you could spray bullets with.

    - - -

    Maybe to increase pistol utility, they could be auto-reloaded in your holster after they're stowed for a certain time? e.g. I empty my glock, switch to another weapon for 5-10 seconds, I switch back to the glock and it'd be fully reloaded.
     
    #35
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Mercedes

    Mercedes Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    12
    Server:
    Flood
    I'd like to suggest to add a new achievement for the predator missile, like launch 50 of them to unlock.
     
    #36
  17. counter

    counter Godly Member Platinum VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    834
    Server:
    Flood
    Discord:
    co#2858
    I think that would be a good idea, maybe you could discuss it here instead since it's something that's far beyond my reach: https://github.com/GMDevinity/FloodIssues/issues/392
     
    #37

Users Who Have Read This Thread (Total: 9)