Hello again ladies and gentlemen, I have decided to make a dedicated thread suggesting some ideas I have accumulated in my head, right now there are two main topics: - Loss Mitigation - Ideas for VIP perks Loss Mitigation Basically there has been an ongoing debate on how to mitigate the losses new players make on the gamemode, we know new players tend to run out of money and become unable to compete against other players therefore I propose a loss mitigation formula. This system would refund players of their money spent on props depending on how much money they have earned in total. The system will not refund players above a certain threshold of money earned, therefore experienced players will not benefit off it. Spoiler: The Formula Constants: T = Threshold Of Activation = 100000 (You can change this to your liking) Variables: Ce = Cash Earned In Round Cu = Cash Used In Round TC = Total Cash Earned Over Entire Playtime Preconditions: TC less than T TC greater than zero (Cu - Ce) is greater than zero Formula: Refunded Amount = (T - TC) / T * (Cu - Ce) Example Ce = 200 Cu = 400 TC = 10000 The player here has made a loss of $200 Refunded Amount = (100000 - 10000) / 100000 * (400 - 200) = 180 $180 or 90% of the losses are refunded to this player. Ideas for VIP Perks There has been talk that platinum perks/benefits are pretty unsatisfactory, here are some ideas which I feel are unsung: 1. Bodygroup selection in Player Model Alot of our models have some nice bodygroup configurations that could be used. 2. MVP themes VIPs get to choose one song to play (via youtube urls) when they are the MVP to the match (Most profit and survived till the end of the round) 3. Punch swep During the build phase only, VIPs get a punch swep, the punch swep does 0 damage and does not shake the camera of its target, the only thing it does is make a sound much like the candy cane.
I really like pretty much all of these suggestions. Adding small things like that to platinum is what we really need for it, and the MVP theme idea is pretty cool. Maybe plats could get custom crowbar/sledge skins?
Yes I really hope the MVP theme idea comes to fruitition, I will be moving to make this a GitHub issue once I get a nice amount of positivity. On custom crowbar/sledge skins, I think that one is hard to implement since there would need to be an entire menu created just for the plats, maybe if crowbar/sledge skins was a non-donator thing, it would be much better.
MVP Themes sounds good (cough stolen from csgo cough) aslong as we can change / Delete someones Theme if they put in something Racist / Harassing Crowbar Sledge skins is mm.. dunno, you can download Crowbar skins off Workshop and i think you would have to make Hammer Skins yourself. The Punch SWEP sounds kinda fun lul but yeah, its kinda useless
@Bagels Didn't even realize the pun until you pointed it out. @Rashu If they use racist/offensive/harassing themes we can just warn/kick/ban/vip demote them, simple as that. Skinning the crowbar/sledge isnt the hard part, any random schmuck with photoshop experience can do that, what really is the true test is creating the ui for the skin selection. If the punch swep was made useful, that would kinda be p2w wouldn't it? I guess the punch swep can do a little knockback.
Yeah i understand that punch SWEP thing. As i said it could be fun but also annoying if spammed. For the Themes, kicking/Banning them wouldnt change the Theme unless we code it like that. and yeah well Selection UIs..
Oh rashu I think you are confused, I was suggesting fully personalized MVP themes, only for the player, if any other player got MVP the normal songs will play.
Yes but if someone gets in a rule-breaking theme, warn/kick/ban/demote should solve that. Keep in mind that the criteria for mvp (bankman and survival is rarely achieved) added to the fact only plats and above should have them and you will very rarely hear a custom mvp song.
I love the idea of the VIP perks but I don't see much use in the Punch SWEP. The MVP idea is probably one of my favorite suggestions I have seen so far, I think it would bring some variety into the gamemode and really let players be more motivated to try and get the MVP title.
Ugh this again, you know why don't we also remove taunts while were at it, they are also useless. The purpose of the punch swep is interactivity kind like our current taunts and yes it might be annoying if every player spams it but its not going to be an every player thing, its for plats only. Now kindly leave my punch swep alone...
Regarding "Total Cash Earned Over Entire Playtime" it sounds like you are ignoring money loss and only considering the amount gained from the round: Spoiler: Preconditions TC less than T TC greater than zero From what I can see, this system only focuses on new players which have low "TC" rather than players who are struggling to earn money. This won't work since it will only support players for the worth of the threshold value. This means that after exceeding the 100,000 threshold value, they will no longer be supported by the system. I can continue naming problems with the system, but you should get it by now. I think it should be remodelled to this (Pretty similar): Spoiler: The secret (Krabby patty) formula Variables: P = Profits T = Threshold (Warning: Not the same Value) Ce = Cash Earned Cu = Cash Used Conditions: Profits is below 0 Cu - Ce is greater than 0 Formula: I won't be able to specifically be able to name the value of the threshold (Possibly 10,000 with regards to the 25,000 starting money) , but this seems to be more suited for players who are losing money and not new players.
@Cozygung Bro do you even math? Allow me to demolish your counter-proposal... "it sounds like you are ignoring money loss and only considering the amount gained from the round" That's the point, this proposal is desgined to assist new players, what even is the purpose of loss if experienced players get it mitigated aswell. "TC less than T, TC greater than zero" You missed out "(Cu - Ce) is greater than zero", if this is missed out, players making profits WILL LOSE MONEY. "This won't work since it will only support players for the worth of the threshold value. This means that after exceeding the 100,000 threshold value, they will no longer be supported by the system. I can continue naming problems with the system" I don't think a player struggles after the 100k mark, by the time a player reaches 100k he's expected to have the bazooka or m249 and have knowledge of how to form and join teams, if he doesn't? Lets just say im amazed the player is able to use a pc. "Conditions: Profits is below 0, Cu - Ce is greater than 0" Loss and (Cu - Ce) is the same thing, so is Profits and -(Cu - Ce), basically you are applying the same condition twice. Now we get to the good part, lets apply your formula to my example scenario: Spoiler T = 10000 (As per your suggestion) Ce = 200 Cu = 400 The player here has made a loss of $200 or profit of -$200 P = -200 Refunded Amount = -(-200) / (10000 - (-200) ) * (400 - 200) = 3.3333 => 3 $3 or a little more than 1% of the losses are refunded to this player. At this point you may as well not even refund him.
Sgt: "You missed out "(Cu - Ce) is greater than zero", if this is missed out, players making profits WILL LOSE MONEY." I have stated this, you even replied to me regarding this. You just countered yourself. Sgt: Loss and (Cu - Ce) is the same thing, so is Profits and -(Cu - Ce), basically you are applying the same condition twice. You seem to have misunderstood. I meant profits throughout the player's whole playtime. It's probably my fault for not making the variables clear. Sgt: "That's the point, this proposal is desgined to assist new players, what even is the purpose of loss if experienced players get it mitigated aswell." Sgt: "I don't think a player struggles after the 100k mark, by the time a player reaches 100k he's expected to have the bazooka or m249 and have knowledge of how to form and join teams if he doesn't? Let's just say I'm amazed the player is able to use a pc." "Now we get to the good part, lets apply your formula to my example scenario: Changed to the proper amount Spoiler T = 10000 (As per your suggestion) Ce = 200 Cu = 400 The player here has made a loss of $200 or profit of -$200 P = -200 -20000) / (10000 - (-20000) ) * (400 - 200) = 133.3333 10,000 is not a fit number so probably needs to be changed with respect to the starting money (25,000) $3 or a little more than 1% of the losses are refunded to this player. At this point, you may as well not even refund him." Your proposal gives a better first impression on the new players and allows them to enjoy their first few hours as it ensures that they won't lose money (or much), assuming the player "earns" 1k each round. But, this doesn't seem like it will function long term. You say that the player would have adapted to build boats by the time a player reaches 100k, but realistically, the system would only be truly effective up to the 30~40k mark. Furthermore, these players who were practically given "free props" up to the 30k mark, would probably start to build large boats, costing greater amounts of money. This is because an average flood player usually tends to go through a stage where they would build large boats (with their friends). This is also further influenced by your method. I don't want to unnecessarily give new players "free props" which ensures them that they will either get most of their money back or earn profit. You say it is in-exploitable, but if the player was playing with a friend, the player could just spawn in lots of props with a lot of health and get the friend to farm off it whilst the player would still earn most of their money back. Then the friends can just give the player the money whilst keeping the variable "Total Cash earned" the same if the player did not do any damage. Yes, it does reinforce players to earn profit and get them settled in, however, since your system does not concern whether if the new player is actually struggling to earn money or not, makes it exploitable. Whereas, my proposal will only support them if they are actually nearly at the state of bankruptcy without any weapons to sell. It won't unnecessarily help players who doesn't really need this support and will also promote efficiency and profit since the players can't just build a boat knowing that they will be earning most of it back. We need to make players know the value of money, and using your "recipe" makes the purpose of earning money redundant and influences players to build larger boats. Although it has some good points as well, it does also have its flaws.
@Cozygung Oh dear, you could've just increased the constant "T" and placed a multiplier of perhaps 0.5 to achieve the same :/
But that still does not change the fact that it is only concerning the new players and not whether if they are actually struggling to earn money.
