Dawson is not fit for administration

Discussion in 'Denied' started by Rick, Jun 10, 2017.

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  1. Rick

    Rick female nipple Gold VIP

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    I have put this thread off for two (2), as dawson would say, years. Dawson is not fit to be in the role that he is currently in.

    I've had to swallow my pride in saying this because I was one of 4 votes to get dawson promoted from moderator to admin, and at the time I really did think that he should be administrator so that he could better contribute to devinity as a whole.

    Dawson, before and after his promotion has selflessly devoted himself to devinity. He works incredibly hard towards both development and moderation and I think that every single person on devinity owes him a high level of gratitude as devinity wouldn't be where it is today.

    I don't think dawson should be demoted, I don't want that because he continuously puts out good ideas and overall he is a positive force for the community. But I don't think he should be in charge of handling the staff team or the community (At least in no form above that of a moderator).

    I'm not going to say anything about this entire "Faggot" thing and dawson acting completely unproffesional in the staffchat, only what I have had first hand experience with because my issue is with his interactions with the community.

    I've put this thread off because of the fact that I wanted to settle into devinity, but he's already trying to get rid of me again so I might as well make this thread at a time when at least some of the devinity community is coming to their senses about his behavior. He's turning devinity into an echochamber and a safespace where you cannot disagree with anything for fear that he will open a vendetta against you.

    I don't know if any of you have ever confronted dawson about anything, but it usually doesn't go down well and he very often doesn't like it, I understand arguing your point and not being a pushover but dawson is stubborn, that's the only way to put it, he doesn't know what to do when faced with criticism, which is a shame given it's very important if you're in any important position.

    Before I show the following evidence I'd like to say that before I critisised him on his idea I had had purely positive interactions with him since I had been back in devinity, just as I had had with everyone else here (I hope) and here's some evidence that I was making some progress in getting Dawson to not hate me so much, and to put my previous differences with him behind me since I returned despite hating his character.

    hello? - 02/23/2017

    report_the_ruskies.dem
    3.81 MB
    hello? - 02/23/2017
    Did it work?
    Dawson - 02/23/2017
    yah it did
    I got them all
    hello? - 02/23/2017
    Cheers :thumbsup:
    Is the number of harpoons you get in pirate rounds still limited?
    Dawson - 02/23/2017
    Yeah it's still capped to 4
    unless you open a chest that has more of them.
    hello? - 02/23/2017
    Cool, I was making a suggestion for the github about something to do with pirate rounds
    March 19, 2017
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    Hey bro can you unban my friendy
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    Is that his name?
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    Friendy?
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    Yes
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    No it's Merk
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    From Discord or the server?
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    Just flood he's on discord
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    What do others say about that?
    Unbanning him
    I'll ask
    around
    first
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    Thanks :smiley:
    He came to ask you himself but you're muted
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    I don't know what he did
    but I guess.
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    He was a memer with me
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    Can you give me his ID
    so I may search and do the job
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    Yeah 1 sec
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    Merk's unbanned.
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    He says thankyou
    i say thanks too
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    Yeah you're welcome
    I'm chatting with him right now
    Hey, do you have access to the prop suggestions thread?
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    :heart:
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    I could grant you access
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    I'm completely banned from the forums
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    so you can see what we've found as of late
    no not there
    I mean here
    we have a channel
    I meant to say
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    Oh yeah I do
    dw
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    I seldom go on the forums anyway
    Oop
    okay, I see
    Just checking. While it's a bucket list item, imo it'd be neat to have certain props that have colored sections to be capable of being colorized.
    E.g., the wooden boats
    just the striped sections
    https://gyazo.com/d17eb955901b7824bc23171037f17977
    Gyazo
    Gyazo

    Something like this
    But am not really set in stone about it yet
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    Maybe if you replace the existing boats
    But if you just add more boats with the entire point of being recoloured na
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    Oh no
    I was thinking, actually, of having lazarus create a skin for these existing props
    There wouldn't be any new prop additions.
    However, the skins would be available on the workshop (theoretically) and could be switched on and off at will
    Same would apply for certain player models that we've already skinned too
    (e.g., Finn, Vaas, Dr. Zoidberg.)
    Yeah, duplicates would be going too far.
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    I guess yeah
    That'd be cool
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    It's up in the air and will be visited when appropriate
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    I wouldn't make it like a priority tho ofc, but if you have no existing projects
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    ^
    Yeah
    It's definitely a bucket list aesthetic-grade idea
    We already embroied in severa things, of course: (1) solving the Flood Economy, (2) preparing the new Weapon system, (3) Performing other quality tweaks and shit like that, etc...
    Indeed, there's a bit too much ongoing at the moemnt
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    Fairs, you working on anything atm?
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    Ahhhhh, was fiddling with colorized mockups of the props I had in mind of editing for the future, but aside from that, that's about it.
    Been contemplating devising a concept blueprint for a new map that's based on Donkie's recent idea of devising a spin-off of Flood that doesn't utilize rising water
    I.e., something that's wharf-themed, for now
    There's a user by the name of Ruben that's a map maker
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    Yeah I read about that, with like a room instead of the entire map being used?
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    and does a pretty decent job to boot
    For the war zone/
    ?
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    Sort of like surf right
    Dawson - 03/19/2017
    I... think? haven't been to any surf servers.
    But
    I'd be similar in respect to the sled gamemode where you can build a boat on the sidelines (or fuck about in whatever way you'd want to) and then plop it into the war zone when ready.
    That's what I'm getting at so far.(edited)
    hello? - 03/19/2017
    Yeah thats what I was think
    ing
    June 1, 2017
    hello? - 06/01/2017
    Hi Dawson, your post on the forums reminded me that I needed to make some achievement icons for donkie, I dont suppose you have a list of them somewhere that I could use? Theres a couple such as the clocks which we could reuse.
    Dawson - 06/01/2017
    I don't. I got rid of them a year ago. Just make 32 x 32 icons that are transparent.
    hello? - 06/01/2017
    Yeah, it was mostly to save some time and gvie some consistency but I dont mind doing it, cheers anyway
    Dawson - 06/01/2017
    Okay.

    Or if you'd prefer to actually read it http://imgur.com/a/RmLN1

    After that, I disagreed with ONE suggestion that he made, I may have been a little agressive because I strongly disagreed with it, but he completely blew it out of the water.[​IMG]

    Fair enough if he disagrees with me, and I later came to the realization that I was in the minority and accepted the decision. But how he responded to my next post was passive aggressive, talking down to me and entirely inappropriate.

    [​IMG]

    To this I then sent him a private message asking for him to rethink the way he handle'd my critisism, to which he didn't respond at all. I sent him a PM as I didn't want to start any drama by making this thread, but it appears that as of late he has been doubling down on this sort of behavior so I felt it was best if I made this thread.

    [​IMG]

    After sending that I received a noticeable response from dawson in that he attempted to get me banned for a post that was very reasonable (A decision that was later rectified by Counter thankfully) and a very sudden change in tempo with him saying things such as "If he acts out of line crucify him", and he also blocked me on apparently all forms of contact. I asked counter to ask him to unblock me so that I could talk to him and apologize, if he felt I had been rude, to which he childishly refused. I'd like to repeat the fact that after I disagreed with him and sent him a PM he blocked me on all platforms.

    Dawson has a tendancie to simply not reply to PMs you send them if he doesn't like, which is completely inappropriate.

    I'd much prefer if dawson was left to an entirely developmental role as I don't think he is approachable (In the way that he talks in a hugely stilted manner and isn't open to critisism). He also does very little for the community apart from in development of flood, and also exhibits autistic tenancies that I will not go into as it isn't wholly appropriate, but it gives the very clear impression that he isn't entirely equip for interacting with people on either a personal or professional level.

    Failing his role being changed I think that some more administrators with differing opinions should be promoted in an attempt for him to be challenged more on some of the decisions he makes and not having the weak opposition of counter and laz. (No offense to you both)
     

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  2. counter

    counter Moderator Staff Member Server Moderator Platinum VIP

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    I can't be bothered to write an essay as it'd be a waste of time, so here's what I have to say
    Dawson shouldn't be the one to put to blame as I would've done the same as well and you probably would do so too judging from your character. Here's my bias, that guy is and deserves to be called a faggot. I have no morals for douchebags like him who goes out their way to deliberately give us a hard time, breaking server rules and then accusing us for doing the wrong here. Does that make it right? No, and I agree with you but people like him (who Dawson banned) deserves no respect and are examples of the scums of the earth.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Your actions caused him to act this way, he didn't have a grudge on you until you pushed the boundaries. You're the one being stubborn yourself despite countless amount of chances we gave for you to act up and change. Dawson wasn't the only one that wanted to kick you off the community, the majority as an entire team wanted to. You should've been banned about a week ago but weren't because of Donkie's relations towards you which is astonishing to me.

    EDIT: I'll be unsubscribing from this thread now. Contradict my statements all you want, I do and will not care. You have gone too far for escalating a situation you yourself have caused in the first place. This wouldn't have happened if you did what I asked instead of causing a huge fit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
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  3. Rick

    Rick female nipple Gold VIP

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    I really didn't want for you to post in this thread. Not because I don't agree with defending dawson but because your defence, and attitude towards me is evidence of a much larger problem of a staff team with only two active members who entirely agree with eachother.

    I acknowledged in my post that I may have acted slightly out of place in the the thread. However I'd like to point out that you also agreed with me in PMs that it wasn't worth of a bad AND that "dawson blows things out of proportion sometimes".

    I really appreciate you posting those screenshots as it shows the extent of dawson's unresting and unreasonable grudge against me. I posted the "actions I took to cause him to act that way" and I think that literally any reasonable person would agree that they were not even close to garnering a response like the one he gave. Regardless of Donkie's response, or Jeffs or yours read the response and judge whether that is me being defensive of something that I feel strongly about or whether I am trying to troll him.

    I don't mind donkie saying he would've banned me, or anybody else. Fair enough because I genuinely feel as if devinity is beyond saving sometimes but this is my last ditch effort to change the way the admin team acts because to be honest it's a completely awful echochamber.

    I'm not trying to troll anybody like I used to and I'm not trying to start drama, but I'm trying to genuinely defend the devinity I love and if that's "the old rick" then go ahead and ban me. But for 3 months I was entirely polite and posted positively, and after trying to defend myself twice this was the response I got, we need different staff in the admin team and we need it as soon as possible.
     
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  4. Bagels

    Bagels Dedicated Member Bronze VIP

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    I hate to say it, but i agree with Rick. After getting to know Dawson, I've disagreed with how he runs the server heavily. To start, he can't take criticism and calls everyone he disagrees with "full of shit":
    http://imgur.com/a/TOBo2
    http://imgur.com/a/yoOCe

    Is calling people who disagrees with you "full of shit" acceptable? I wouldn't say so for a normal person, let alone someone of a rather high position. All Donkie did was explain his opinion and that he agreed with Silver, it was done so in only a few messages. How Dawson responded was with hostility, saying he is "Full of shit and bankrupt on compassion".

    Silver shouldn't have been so happy when he met someone who agreed with his opinions. I shouldn't have to be fearful of what's going to happen for posting my disagreement.

    On another note, I disagree with how Dawson actually moderates the server as well. When I've seen him play, he doesn't listen to the rules this server runs on. What is said is "Warn>Kick>Ban>Perma". Dawson has next to never utilized the warn function. If you look at the infractions page and look at Dawson's infractions that he has given, it's all kicks and bans.

    Players should be warned first, not kicked/banned right off the bat. Is it really necessary to disregard your own rules? It's a hostile way of moderating and can put players off from joining the server again. I've used the warning function many times, much more than I've actually given kicks. Many times, they have listened and not done it again, all because i gave them a warning. What does kicking players straight away do?

    Most staff don't get into the drama and most who do agree with Dawson. As of now, the only people i know who disagree with him are me, Silver, Donkie, and Rick. I've been rather quiet about my opinions as I've been waiting for a time to voice them. Donkie was met with being called full of shit and Silver is met with a majority of the server basically hating him.

    I don't agree with how Dawson moderates, and that's it. I don't want drama. I just want to voice my opinion and I don't think i should be seen as a worse person for my opinions. I hope, if any of you respond to this, that you do like a mature adult, with no bias, and see my opinion how it is. That's all I have to say.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
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  5. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang Veteran Member Platinum VIP

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    Rick, Dawson has done more for the community than you have simply put. You call for his demotion as if you have any ground to stand on, perhaps if you hadn't sullied your reputation time and time again I might be able to actually take this thread seriously. But I don't, because from what I can tell the only people to have problems with Dawson are you, Silver (which is due to political views from what I can tell), and butthurt players that got what they deserved. The "faggot" thing is none of your business since you are not a staff member, and whoever informed you about it should be demoted for breaking the secrecy agreement. Like Counter said as well, the overwhelming majority of staff want you gone not just Dawson.
     
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  6. Rick

    Rick female nipple Gold VIP

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    I'm not the only one who feels this way but after talking to many others I realized that it was important for me to make this thread.

    You've said in your post that you don't encourage transparency, which is absolutely despicable, there is no secrecy agreement. Any issues with the staff team of a community I love is my business and everybody else's. This is another huge issue with devinity which is a shame after the pushes for transparency which came last year. Infact I think that asking for this entire thing to be covered up goes against everything that a good community stands for.

    upload_2017-6-11_2-31-51.png

    Better demote donkie then :)

    There is no "Staff secrecy agreement" and there shouldn't be, I think you need to seriously consider you position Donkie telling me this was completely normal

    I'm not arguing that he hasn't contributed to devinity, I said that he shouldn't be in a position to manage staff, and we should promote some neurotypical staff in his place.
     
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  7. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang Veteran Member Platinum VIP

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    Actually there is an agreement, it's one all staff are supposed to abide by including Donkie which is why I think he should somehow be seriously reprimanded even I know that won't be possible. Now you can argue that you should be able to see Staff channels because you love the community but that just ain't how it works sweetie, of course what does it matter when you have your buddy leaking everything to you.
     
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  8. Rick

    Rick female nipple Gold VIP

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    I don't mind saying that you are retarded for this post.

    Donkie is the only reason we have devinity and you should appreciate that.

    Dawson made up the "super secret club rule" do you rekon that's evident of a bigger problem. I think that it is the worst thing that I have ever heard about the current staff team and if there's one thing I want to come out of this is that it be abolished.
     
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  9. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang Veteran Member Platinum VIP

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    No he didn't, I wouldn't expect you to know anything about it though. Yeah Donkie is responsible for Devinity but that doesn't give him the right to break rules and be a dick. Sure we can't do anything about it if he wants to be a dictator, but I doubt many staff will stay around long.
     
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  10. Rick

    Rick female nipple Gold VIP

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    The staff team, including you is entirely replaceable and I think that you should be replaced.

    A staff member told me that Dawson came up with the stupid rule but yeah, I wouldn't expect to know because of how utterly self enclosed the staff team is in a further attempt to avoid criticism.

    I don't think donkie talking to me about an issue with his entire admin team as a friend is being a dictator, and I think it anyone knows whats good for devinity it's him, and nobody on the admin team.
     
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  11. classic

    classic Community Member Platinum VIP

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    Don't want to be rude, but you don't know @Dawson in a matter of less than a month like the rest of us do.

    I disagree with this point heavily, due to the fact that Dawson is always contributing to the community in several ways, putting player models on display, map ideas etc. When i joined the server in late 2014-15 He was always asking me for ideas, and criticizing his ideas and if i liked them or not(still does), the reason this annoys me is for the fact that you're being judgmental and basing what he acts like from one situation.

    I agree with what you're trying to say here, but it just seems like you're repeating yourself from what you've previously said.

    There's a guideline which is warn>kick>ban>Perma It's to help new staff or in general staff members understand what to do in situations and how to handle them, it doesn't always have to go that way. Pretty much every staff member, i know for a fact that counter, wolfgang, myself(when i was), Dawson (like stated) don't always follow that guideline it varies on the situation. I guess you could base a staff member as an enforcer of LAW, it's his choice if he wants to write the ticket, or hand the person a warning, maybe it's more preferred and ethical to hand the person a warning rather than a ticket,but it's likely they will do it again. In the end it's his decision and his choice. Which is also in the rules that what the staff member says goes. When i was called on at 12;00 in the morning by people complaining constantly, i'd watch the person in disguise, if i saw them fuck up due to people complaining i'd ban them straight away. I think it's hugely unfair to single dawson out of the rest of the staff team on this, Because a fuck ton of us have done it.

    I don't see how he's disregarding the rules, let alone any other staff member on banning straight away, there's no set rule for warn>kick>ban>perma once again it's a guideline to help staff members understand that it's a more preferred way on doing things. I don't suggest basing the whole community from the few people you've warned, saying every person would act the same in that situation that's just stupid. Personally I don't think I've ever been put off from a server i enjoy playing by seeing a staff member ban someone straight away for ruining the fun i'm having and or doing something that is against the rules, I don't know about you or any other people, but i think that's a stupid way to put things tbh.

    This isn't about who disagree nor who agrees, and it's definitely not about choosing sides. So i don't see why you'd list who disagrees and who doesn't. I don't want to sound like i'm being a bigot, but I respect your opinion no matter what, but you've said some things, not only myself disagree with but others do too. I don't know about the "Most staff don't get into the drama" part but otherwise, I fully encourage you to voice your opinion more on the forums, i don't want to dis-courage you from doing it again with this obnoxious response as it can be scary, i know that for a fact.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
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  12. SilverMario

    SilverMario Golden

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    Wait Dawson actually just abused his powers though, did anyone notice that? He just unbanned a player just like that with no appeal or anything, abuse of power is grounds for demotion.

    Rick is a player and you all need to respect this thread because Rick is also a big help in the community and was an example of an amazing admin. Rick really knows his shit about staffing and I agree with this post.

    On top of this Dawson actual broke a divinity rule and Counter did too right after just to try and trigger me. As a staff in no way/shape/or form are you even CLOSE to being above the rules. Breaking the rules should be grounds for demotion and none of this should've been covered up.

    Don't bother replying to me, no need to target me because I voice my opinion. You all need to just let this thread be because it's seriously a feedback/suggestion.

    Dawson, you're a dick to players all around (ESPECIALLY RICK AND I) for no reason. You treat players like they're useless assholes and you want them all gone. You use powers to kick players out and it doesn't seem like you want anyone to play on the servers.

    Rick I agree with your thread 100%.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
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  13. The Wolf Whisperer

    The Wolf Whisperer Alpha Wolf

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    Rick, you are a fool for coming back here. Everyone knows the constant abuse and attacks you have launched against our ccommunity and frankly I don't give a flying fuck about your opinion. You degraded me on a sensitive situation and ever since I got your ban green lit you have been nothing but anal to everyone here. It's time to grow up and move on in your life. The fact that you continue to waste your time attacking Devinity only signifies you'd rather sit in your chair at your computer and wither away rather than make a contribution to the world. It's been almost a year since I joined give or take a few months and you've shown me you cannot behave like an adult. It's really getting old, you have nothing to gain here so stop waisting your time.
     
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  14. Donkie

    Donkie Founder & Senior Developer Platinum VIP

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    I just don't see why people are getting so defensive when he's merely suggesting demoting Dawson to a more developer position, which fits EXACTLY what he loves doing and has always done. He's praising Dawson's work, he's just giving him criticsm on the moderator part of his role. To be fair not everybody is a good moderator, me including, which is why I try not to get involved.
     
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  15. Bayrock

    Bayrock Founder & Developer Staff Member Founder

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    I won't make a comment on the entire situation yet, but everyone's opinion matters here. Whether Dawson (or any member) is admin or not suggestions should be equally criticized by everyone before and after they're implemented.

    I appreciate other perspectives on this topic, as I don't know how to view it myself currently.
     
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  16. Bagels

    Bagels Dedicated Member Bronze VIP

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    I agree with Bayrock on the fact that everyone's opinion matters here. Nobody's opinion should be judged by kindergarten conflicts and grudges. Just because you don't like Rick (For the record, I agree with him but don't agree with how he went about things for the most part) doesn't give you the right to completely ignore any of his points.

    Nobody is ultimately right in this situation, and each side for the situation shouldn't bias themselves towards their opinion, but look at it from all directions.
     
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  17. jeffreythe00

    jeffreythe00 Dreamer Platinum VIP

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    Actually, I take full credit for this, However this was during a time when I was fully engaged in the community. Now I only have a fraction of the time to give. There is a time and a place for everything. Just as there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to handle situations. While I don't agree with your way of handling this situation @Rick you make some fair points.

    To keep this short, I don't think it would be considered a demotion to allow Dawson to have a developer role after all, that is what he is good at and what he likes to do. I also don't think he is "unfit for administration" either. I just feel he is not the best at handling sticky situations and he gets carried away. When situations like this arise, you guys should handle it as a community and be
    non-bias about it.

     
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  18. Rick

    Rick female nipple Gold VIP

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    I really strongly disagree with your super secret agreement and I think it takes away from the point of having an involved playerbase outside of the staff team but that's not the topic of this thread so maybe we can discuss that another time.

    I agree that this wasn't appropriate and I feel bad for some of the stuff I said as it is in some ways encouraging tension, but I have tried and tested every other option; I tried contacting dawson directly, I tried talking to counter about it, I've tried talking to Donkie about it, and I tried blocking him on the forums so that I didn't have to deal with stuff like this. And I don't see much choice I had apart from to make this thread to voice my opinion because the sad fact is that threads like this will have hugely more influence than talking to staff directly, and the forums are a good place for discussion.

    Yeah it shouldn't be considered a demotion and it might also give an incentive to allow dawson to contribute in more ways to flood, but is there much that sets admin apart from dev other than handling people and conflict? That's the reason I think he can't fulfill his current role. Dawson has outstandingly contributed even before he was a Jr.Mod and I don't think there's anybody in the community who would like to see him gone.

    That was wholly inappropriate and if you really want me to leave that isn't the way to go about it. This thread is an attempt to be entirely constructive and you posting an attack like this on the OP of a thread, if you want to chat shit do it in PMs which is slightly less pathetic, or go ahead and take time out of your real wolf sanctuary to make a thread about me, I really don't mind as there's not too much you can get annoyed about me as of recently.

    I've not conducted and "attacks" since I've been back so they're not constant and I don't think that I've done anything to warrant this sort of response from a reasonable thread.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
    #18
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