Modification Suggestions/ideas for those of us who get teamed up on

Discussion in 'Garry's Mod: Flood' started by Decap, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. Nyaaa~ ∑:3

    Nyaaa~ ∑:3 Old Champion

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    All those ideas about "nerfing" weapons will not help. Problem lies not in them, but in human psychology.

    Removing player lvl and cach info could help, but it would not get rid of this problem entierly, since people still can find themselves a more dangerous target after some time. And it affects not just one guy who wins time after time, but entire groups of people, and thats, in my opinion, weights the ingame "balance" by itself.

    Yes, Such people like Decap might not like "targeting", but this is one of the ways to 'balance out" the game. Noone would like seeing one guy\team winning each and every game, right? Thats the balance of it.


    Still, I can give you an idea to balance "winning streaks" by decreasing prop limit of a winning player. Each time (after 3 wins or so), winning player\team will experience "prop farigue", which will decrease existing prop limit by 1(or 2) every time they win a match. This will hold on to them as long as they winning, and will disappear after 3 rounds without winning streaks. This (i hope) will help losing players to catch up and give some winners small "time out".
     
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  2. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang Veteran Member Platinum VIP

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    This is exactly the opposite of what the thread is for. In fact it'd only make it harder for veterans like Decap.
     
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  3. Nyaaa~ ∑:3

    Nyaaa~ ∑:3 Old Champion

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    Veterans is the exact reason why people dont play much. Like, when i join the game and play for about an hour - everyone leaves. They dont want to play with someone who wins time and time again.

    So, in such situation - who you gonna treat right? Newcomers or Veterans?
     
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  4. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang Veteran Member Platinum VIP

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    Again that's a completely different topic. This entire discussion is attempting to find a solution to make gameplay more enjoyable for veterans without making it less enjoyable for new players.

    What you are suggesting is that it's already unenjoyable for current beginners which is technically off topic and if you wish you should probably make a separate thread.
     
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  5. Decap

    Decap Super Radman

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    Gotta disagree here bud. Again, this isn't a one time thing. It happens every time I play. I get one match in, then that's it, every player will target me and I can't even get one boat destroyed, let alone win a game. So in the off chance I do happen to win 3 games in a row, I'd get punished for doing so well by getting my max props reduced. A "balanced out" playing field should make it fair for everyone, not difficult for high level players and easy for low level players. This is what is called a skill gap. If you make it hard for veteran skilled players to keep playing, they will stop playing. If you make it easy for unskilled players to win, they will lose interest quickly and stop playing as well. Those who put the time in to get good at the game should be rewarded when they win, not punished.

    Obviously removing cash and player level on the scoreboard won't keep everyone from targeting me, but it will deter at least some of them. The problem here isn't to keep everyone from attacking me, but to at least keep the whole server from doing it all at once.
     
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  6. Clyde

    Clyde Active Member

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    Hiding the cash and level will help me out too as i get people constantly nagging me for cash or being targeted.
     
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  7. Decap

    Decap Super Radman

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    This is another point as well. A bunch of people asked me for money since I'm sitting at 5 million. I don't give money out to those who ask. I give it out to those who need it. As if you are out of money and can't build, I'll throw a couple thousand to help out. Well since one person had $100, I gave him $2000 but no one else. I'd guess some of them got salty and targeted me for that as well.
     
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  8. Clyde

    Clyde Active Member

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    I do the same thing i only give money to people who need it. I would rather have people play the game for money rather than me just giving it to them.
     
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  9. Nyaaa~ ∑:3

    Nyaaa~ ∑:3 Old Champion

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    Welp, since nobody likes my ideas and words, or simply dont understand them (and since my long "drama-tier" essay was completly obliterated by server shutdown), let me be frank rn : Nobody will take this seriously. Nobody will fix it. There is no right move.

    You can even bet me on that one.
     
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  10. Dawson

    Dawson Veteran Member Platinum VIP

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    No.... There's a way, but quitting isn't going to change a damn thing.

    It's difficult because we want to find a way that doesn't add artificial difficulty/impairment, but manages to maintain enjoyability for both experienced and new users.
     
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  11. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang Veteran Member Platinum VIP

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    Personally I find the poetic aspect of your writing annoying if I'm being honest, and it is a bit insulting to accuse us of not understanding you when I did just find. I think perhaps what you were trying to get across to us was getting lost in translation, but it was off-topic. There is a right move which would be working to find a solution (purpose of the thread actually)

    Additionally there was no reason to post that other than to insult us and/or cause drama in a thread that's meant to help better the game for veterans.
     
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  12. Decap

    Decap Super Radman

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    Plenty of right moves, you just have to be innovative and find the right one. This is why I insisted on trying to remove cash and level from the scoreboard to see if it works. If it does not work, then we can explore other routes. If majority of people do not like your ideas (or words) maybe you should think about why they don't like them. This issue does not need to have drama injected into it for any reason whatsoever. It's a relatively simple discussion that should not have gone as far as you are taking it.
     
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  13. Dawson

    Dawson Veteran Member Platinum VIP

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    That settles it then. We'll amass a list of things to try out and put them individually/additively to the test. Whatever doesn't work will be scrapped.

    I'll devise a github issue addressing this thread. A nice thank you for everyones' contributions.

    (The thread isn't closed, though; you guys can keep going.)
     
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  14. Decap

    Decap Super Radman

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    Will you let me know when this goes live? I'd like to test it out myself and see if it works or not.
     
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  15. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang Veteran Member Platinum VIP

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    I'll keep tabs on it for you and I'm sure Dawson will as well.
     
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  16. Dawson

    Dawson Veteran Member Platinum VIP

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    @Decap - Yah, I'll keep you updated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  17. jeffreythe00

    jeffreythe00 Dreamer

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    I have identified many reasons why people will target a specific player/team. While I don't have a solution to this, perhaps you guys can use this info to find one. (Remember, this is a competitive gamemode. People want to win!)

    If you're being targeted "every" round. It's likely because of one or more of the following.
    Your boat is large. Larger boats are,
    1. Easier to hit.
    2. Give a higher $/per explosive used
    3. Look menacing
    You are a VIP+/Staff. VIP+ are usually targeted because,

    1. People think VIP+ have some sort of advantage
    2. VIP+ players are usually skilled players, so taking them out early means they don't pose a threat
    3. You have a "SHOOT HERE" sign on your face. (IE: You have a colored boat, angel wings, chat tag ect.)
    You are a very skilled player. Skilled players are targeted first because,

    1. If you take the biggest threat out first, the rest is easy.
    2. People are salty because you liquefied their boat.
    3. You won the previous round/s
    4. You have a high player level. (See #1)
    5. You have a lot of cash

    People don't like you. People target you because you,

    1. Are cocky
    2. Are annoying
    3. Are rude
    4. Are young
    5. So on....
     
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  18. RedRazor

    RedRazor Active Member

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    Sometimes when i put two vending machine doors next to each other the hole server takes them down in .5 of second lol
     
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  19. IceSeasons

    IceSeasons Dedicated Member

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    This is quite the predicament if you ask me. While I can agree with @Decap's problems over a large gang of unaffiliated players who can "instantaneously" wipe you off from the face of the earth if they all worked together against the common enemy (aka you), it is very difficult to suggest a solution to this problem without any party feeling mistreated over unfair treatment. A compromise is thus needed here by all parties if we wish to seek a common solution towards this.

    The major issue that we will need to tackle if we wish to see this resolved is the need for intermediate Flood players to self-preserve themselves by attacking any sources of threats, pinpointing potential firefights and gaining a tactical advantage over the enemy. Of course, everybody plays Flood for different reasons; damage accomplishments, design creativity, social interactions and generally winning the game (by killing everyone).


    Like what Decap have stated earlier, intermediate players do take out the big experts first before squabbling over themselves in a civil war. Why? Because these "experts" are far more sustainable than the rest; their own experience in Flood alongside with their massive alliances and arsenal is too big of a threat to ignore, and it thus gives the intermediates an incentive to take them out of the equation first.

    To tackle this problem of high-levelled players being consistently targetted by smaller groups, we must either create a new incentive for intermediates to fight among themselves or remove the incentive that gives the intermediates reason to target high-level players. The latter will absolutely be unpopular with veterans since it removes their dedication and hard work in the server (which will be a big lose to them). Thus, we have no choice but to implement a new incentive or game mechanism to tackle this situation.

    (Let's do away with new weapons, gears and everything, alright? We need systems in place to help ensure a fair gameplay in our servers. Adding new stuff will only delay the inevitable since, in the end, everyone will eventually get their hands on it. It will take some LUA coding, but I am sure it will be worth it.)

    My proposal to this issue, albeit ridiculous in my honest opinion, is the addition of a multiplier value to Flood damage-reward system.

    This multiplier value will be a value that is proportional to each player's respective level in Flood. Governing the math mechanisms of GMod, this multiplier value will decrease in proportion to the player's level. I probably won't be able to give the perfect formula for this, but I am confident you guys can perhaps give better insights and personal thoughts into this mechanism:


    This multiplier value, while decreasing in proportion to the player's level, will be given a lower bar limit (0.75x) to prevent the multiplier value from going too low for players to benefit. This will at least ensure that different players have different multiplier values and that your level will affect your "hidden" multiplier value.

    However, there is a special rule pertaining to the multiplier value. In a usual Flood setting, we normally have multiple players attacking multiple targets at once. In LUA coding, I am sure we can devise a mechanism that refreshes every 5 seconds and check the number of attackers attacking the victim at the stated amount of time. Since damage is untouched (we cannot use the multiplier value on damage!), the LUA mechanism will then be used to convert the stated damage, with respect to the victim, to in-game cash.

    The number of attackers attacking the victim will also go in proportion to the multiplier effect at the stated time:


    This multiplier value can only go as low as the personal player's limit (Lv 50 -> 0.82x multiplier value) or the server's limit (0.75x for the server).

    Teams will not be affected by the multipler value, as they can be considered as a single entity. If this is applied to teams as well, the rewards earned from rounds will be drastically smaller, amplifying the money drain situation in our Flood servers right now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  20. IceSeasons

    IceSeasons Dedicated Member

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    In case anyone is feeling a tad dizzy over the words and lengthy stuff that I have to write (trust me, no one likes reading blocks of text), I have decided to take the time to make out a picture illustration.


    This suggestion, while providing a good compromise between experts and intermediates over this topic, will also have both positive and negative consequences. The negative's just a tad tedious, but bear with me here:

    The positive undesirable effect that we will have by implementing this multiplier value is that it will specifically reward players who can take down players by soloing as an individual or a team. In the case of Decap, this will perhaps be another additional incentive for players to go solo and take out the experts single-handedly in the round. Of course, if people choose to join in, they can only expect far lesser returns with respect to the damage dealt.

    The negative portion of this suggestion is that it will be tedious and LUA-intensive. I don't know whether Donkie or Bayrock might even consider this notion, since it will require the following:

    1. A partial or complete revamp of the damage - reward system. Due to the given complexity of the mechanism, the damage will now need to be classified under the attacker and such. Previously, damage used to be a number, only increasing if the attacker continue attacking. If we want to see this project into light, damage must be given a new classification to hold the number of attackers in the stated time periods and intervals.
    2. The need to calculate and deduce the "perfect" value for the stated mechanisms. This I will not lie; you guys need to find the perfect balance of multiple values to ensure that gameplay is fair for all players. Make it too high, and the problem will still persist albeit smaller. Make it too low, and you will cause a deep recession within the Flood economy.


    I think removing wallet, levels or any information related to the progress of the player will be detrimental to Flood and the player base in the long run. As I've stated earlier, there are players who are over-achievers, who will deseperately try to claim every single achievement in the server and rack up the highest levels and money as a display of power and influence in the server. You can't stop that, it's human nature to compete and excel.

    I don't think there's much for me to say other than that. Please feel obliged to share your feedback with regards to this! :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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