The Grenades.

Personally grenades ruin flood for me, recently it has pushed people towards making smaller boats or doing things like a smaller boat and a larger one. In my eyes that isn't in the spirit of flood. It used to be okay because people didn't think about annoying (And in many cases gameruining) tactics that take into account how much money they can get, with no other parameters like other players, or just generally having fun.

As of right now, there is no point in having a large boat on flood. If you make one it will only mean that you provide farm to other people, this reduces the amount of fun and effort overall on the server. Those whom spend ages building a strong boat (The entire concept of flood) will become utterly distraught when a player with Two Snomen and a crate of beers throws 4 grenades into the centre of his boat. The cunt with the tiny boat gets 4k damage, and then player that has worked long and hard gets almost nothing.

@Decap, you mentioned that fact that you feel that this isn't an issue because nobody talks about it. I think you'll find we do talk about it, and it's been brought up at more than half of our meetings. I also don't like your attitude of "They're supposed to destroy big boats well", whilst that may be true, it in no way justifies having them, if that's what they're supposed to do then I see no positives that outweigh the negatives.

I also think that people underestimate the ability of the grenades currently, given the fact that you are able to position your boat freely before the round, you are always able to locate yourself at the prime range for grenading a large boat. I've seen this done by many players and the use of it is increasing and increasing because it is one of the most effective ways of farming, you can make 6k easily in one round in no more than 10 seconds of playtime.

Preferably I would look for a way to encourage people to build larger boats and stop them from making the smaller ones that ruin the game, although I see no way to do that without drastically changing grenades.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself Rick!

 

6k in 10 seconds? Come on Rick, that is a drastic thought and there's no way that is possible. Maybe if you threw grenades into the center of a bunch of different peoples boats while they are fighting, but that wouldn't take 10 seconds. One of the achievements is to do 6k damage in 1 round and I still don't have that achievement, yet I use grenades all the time. I think that when it comes down to it, people look at flood a little different than the next person and how they think it would run better. I'm all for Donkie's idea to make our own grenades that work the way we want. I just don't want to lose grenades as I find them to be a good strategy against all boats, big or small.

If so many people have such a strong opinion against the grenades, then why is it that this thread has been open for nearly a year and it's just now getting on the 2nd page? Also, what is flood if you don't have ways to make a lot of money? Making money is the only way to get better at the game via buying better weapons. Who is able to win a game with only a pistol and a smg, no one. Who wants to have to play20 rounds just to get enough money to the next pistol, no one. I'm not saying the positives outweigh the negatives, it's even as is and that's the way it should be.

 

As I said, divinity flood isn't a very hot topic and Decap, you cant say that grenades are just as effective against large boats as small boats. Its simple math to figure out the fact that more props = more devastation for an AOE weapon. This is discouraging large boats and that unbalances game play! THAT'S IT! It is not hard to understand. Plus you said that grenades are a good strategy for large and small boats. A single weapon should not be versatile in all situations.

 

It's effective in that it can destroy those small hard to shoot boats. I didn't say anything about destruction or money. Have you though tthat it doesn't discourage large boats, it just encourages people to think outside the box such as making multiple boats. I don't think flood should be sop straight forward. I think that strategy should be used to win, not who has the biggest boat/most money. You guys forget that not everyone who joins flood has all the weapons and enough money to make a big boat, nor the experience to know how to make one. That goes back to what I said in the last page, There HAS to be a way to destroy and dismantle large boats other than just shooting guns at them, otherwise the teams with giant boats will ALWAYS win. Where is the creativity in making boats? Like @Firedraft said, @Dawson comes up with some of the most creative boat designs I've seen. I think we need more creativity like that, not just generic large boats.

To put in into perspective, it sounds like a rich kid that is upset that poor kids are able to put a cheap part on their cars that makes them faster than his Ferrari.

 

I don't think grenade mechanics are as much of an issue as the boat sizes that are most often used. If you're going to make a boat that's as compacted as belly button lint, then expect most (if not all) of your props to sustain heavy damage. All that's needed to mitigate damage is to make the boats bigger and more spread out, like my catwalk boats. Just be sure to line up all of your props at equal surface height with respect to the heaviest props (i.e. in order of mass, money bundles, vending machines).

 

Agreed, Catwalk boats take a while to make, but are easy and efficient. I just lay all of my props on the ground in a straight line, weld then flip over so everything on top is flat. Grenades would only take out maybe a quarter to half of the boat depending on how many are throwing them at me.

 

Think about a server full of Catwalk boats.

Does that appeal to you?

And I don't think that either of you two realise that Gmod is a game primarily played by people in a younger agegroup, and by people that may not be as "Creative" or "Witty" with their boat designs, to be honest I think that you two expect all players to instantly be great at flood, compared to the new players that are already at a huge disadvantage. As it stands grenades allow unfair tactics that cause players to make huge monetary gain through almost no effort.

 

Rick did you even read my whole posts?

 

I think I'm the only one still using large boats now lol. Yea I know how everyone feels about the grenades, the staff has talked about it before and they should be nerded or reduced in damage or ammunition. Imo

 

No, I skimread it whilst listening to Too many Cooks, so to be honest I doubt I got all of your points synapsed into my head.

 

>it just encourages people to think outside the box such as making multiple boats
>I don't think flood should be so straight forward. I think that strategy should be used to win, not who has the biggest boat/most money.
>You guys forget that not everyone who joins flood has all the weapons and enough money to make a big boat, nor the experience to know how to make one.
>That goes back to what I said in the last page, There HAS to be a way to destroy and dismantle large boats other than just shooting guns at them, otherwise the teams with giant boats will ALWAYS win.
Sure, why should the best boat win, anyway? It just isn't logical that a boat as expensive as $10k is winning 100% of the time against a boat worth $170. Somewhat chronologically:
May I suggest that making multiple boats is stupid? It also breaks the atmosphere a little, being the most scrublord attempt at the game. I think it is done mostly by people (I mean teams) who can't really work together or have no idea for their ship. Looks plain bad and not fun at all.
Building a boat might take a lot of thinking and experimenting, don't underrate the scientific mind behind it. That's a nice dose of strategy, I think. And your strategy? Don't stand out, be sneaky? But you know, that also works without grenades. However, with them, being simply the most powerful doesn't, at all. I know, grenadeproof ships. They are cool, you could make holes the grenades will fall through, give it a sloped shape so they will slide off, or make it really wide so the AOE will not affect the whole ship. But honestly, only the last method might work, because when you used the grenades several times you should know the distance and degree you should throw them at for them to explode perfectly at the level of the ship (it's not really that hard).
Not everyone who joins Float for the first time has grenades. No one, actually. And by the time a player gets to buy the grenades, they are usually skilled in the arts of Float already (and have multiple other weapons, who does buy grenades first, instead of SVU or Crossbow or even M249?). What I think really matters, though, would be the hard work every player should put into a game to achieve something. A learning curve everyone has to cope with. If you want players to have equal chances, you should just give them everything at the beginning. But still, one shouldn't be good at the game when they are just beginning. They can do silly things, learn, have fun. No one should have an easy way to win when they just started playing. I enjoyed grinding for the weapons I didn't have in order to stand a chance of winning, or simply doing massive amounts of damage. And to be able to build crazy, unpractical shit, very expensive shit. Mainly that one. Having a powerful and well planned ship is a prize for getting good.
But then, will one always win? There's a neat way to make them giant boats lose - a very simple strategy - attack the biggest threat, not the nearliest neighbor. Most people I've seen fail at this point, unfortunately. But when someone's winning several rounds in a row, they get mad at them.

This is my delusion, at least.

 

You guys type waaay too much.

Lets nerf nades, while also decreasing bouyancy of many props which forces people to build larger boats in order to stay afloat.

 

According to some other posts on the forum, grenades where originally meant to keep large teams from winning every game. So I put my mind to it to come up with another solution that will keep large teams from consistently winning every round assuming that grenades will be nerfed. My idea involves implementing some sort of bounty system for players or teams that win multiple games in a row.

Lets say that after 3 wins in a row, dealing damage to that team would yield a bonus award of cash towards the money earned from damaging that team. For the sake of an example lets say 3% bonus. So lets say a team wins 3 games in a row. After winning 3 games in a row a message of some kind would pop up after the match that would say that team has acquired a bounty. If the team losses that round, you would get a 3% bonus for cash on props you damaged or destroyed of theirs. This would draw attention towards teams that win consistently, not just large boats. It would also keep game outcomes a little more random and steer games away from the same players winning. The bounty could increase, or stay static after more wins, I leave that and the % bonus to your imagination.

Even if you are hesitant to introduce a bounty system, you could put up a message that appears after a team wins 3 times. It would just say that the team is dominating or something to draw attention to the team next round. I'm going to place the idea in the suggestions as well.

 

Problem with this is that, teams aren't static; you can just disband -> recreate the team and then you have a new fresh team.

 

The number of wins in a row could be counted for every player separately. The bounty would apply when all players with a counter belong to one team. Or a team consists of at least 50% of players with a bounty.